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Forum Home > Modifications > Hypotheticals (97 TJ build)

arveetek
Member
Posts: 947


Ok.  Here's the deal: I have been wanting to do an engine swap in my TJ for some time....the 4 little squirrels just don't cut it.


As many of you know, I am a diesel nut.  I now have in my possession a 6.5L diesel V8.  Now, before I get chastised for even thinking of swapping such a heavy motor in, please bare with me.  I know the downfalls, but I still want to to do it.


I know my stock Dana 30 front and Dana 35 rear wouldn't last long behind such a torque monster.  Which brings me to my next hypothetical: I also have in my possession a narrow 14 bolt rear axle from the same truck that donated the diesel engine.  Personally, I think the 14 bolt is a bit overkill for my intended use.  I don't want a dedicated rock-crawler, but a machine pretty much like I have now: a toy that sees about 50% on road and 50% off road (but able to move out of its own way on the highway).  I'm thinking a Dana 44 would be more reasonable and would survive with what I plan to do, and not be as bulky and heavy as the 14 bolt.  I'm thinking 33" or 35" tires at most.


What would you guys say?  Here's the specs as I plan on it:


6.5L diesel N/A (non-turbo...don't need that much power, and will save on weight by ditching the turbo)

Probably 700R4 or SM465 tranny

Undecided on transfer case

33" or 35" tires

Rear axle: purchase Dana 44 or use the 14 bolt I have?

Front axle: Dana 44


Comments?  (And please don't flame me for the diesel idea...I know, I know!! ;) )


--

95 Chevy Tahoe 2 door, 6.5L turbodiesel, 285/75R16 Kenda Klever M/T's on Toyota steelies, some other goodies.  Overlanding Fun

October 2, 2011 at 10:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

arveetek
Member
Posts: 947


Here's a few cool diesel Jeeps:


Jeep YJ w/6.5L turbo diesel


Jeep YJ w/6.2L diesel video


CJ-7 w/Powerstroke video




--

95 Chevy Tahoe 2 door, 6.5L turbodiesel, 285/75R16 Kenda Klever M/T's on Toyota steelies, some other goodies.  Overlanding Fun

October 2, 2011 at 10:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

collinsbronco
Limited Member
Posts: 311

Something to think about. If you run 33's with a 14 bolt rear axle, you will have very poor ground clearance under the differential. With 33's you would net about 8 inches of ground clearance or the same as a stock Cherokee.

--

 

 2000 XJ Sport, 4 1/2 lift,Dana 30, 8.25 rear, NP231,STANO front bumper, rear bumper in progress, TJ Moab wheels, ZJ V8 steering. In the process of front hoop, tires, fender trimming.

WANTED

**ZJ rear gas tank skid, KJ Liberty rear disc brakes**

 


 

October 2, 2011 at 10:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

collinsbronco
Limited Member
Posts: 311

I would say D44 front and rear, keep it 5 lug wheels with some 37x12.50x17 beadlocks!!

--

 

 2000 XJ Sport, 4 1/2 lift,Dana 30, 8.25 rear, NP231,STANO front bumper, rear bumper in progress, TJ Moab wheels, ZJ V8 steering. In the process of front hoop, tires, fender trimming.

WANTED

**ZJ rear gas tank skid, KJ Liberty rear disc brakes**

 


 

October 2, 2011 at 10:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Trailfrog
Site Owner
Posts: 2232

I still have the stock 44 out of my JK minus drivers side axle shaft.  What ring and pinon are you thinking?

October 2, 2011 at 11:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Flexer
Member
Posts: 265

I run a full float 14b rear and D44 front on an SOA YJ with 35s.  I call the 14 bolt "the plow"... but with 35s I really don't have that much trouble.    33s would be a bit of a stretch for a 14b.  I ground off the bottom lip which helps a ton.  Some folks shave off about 2" of it and weld on a steel plate.  I didn't go that far.

I like it.  Indestructible is not a bad thing.  If it did destruct, pull the axles and driveshaft and front wheel drive it home.  I have an ARB in mine but the detroit for one is dang cheap. 

I have broken 4 D44 half-shafts.  Most at the u-joint doing something stupid (pulling someone out in reverse and cut the front wheel, trying to drive up a wedgie on the hubs, etc.)

My front 44 is out of a grand wagoneer.  I put on flat top knuckles for high steer and you can get to 8 lug by changing out the outers to 3/4 ton chevy suburban... holler if you go that route I can help you figure out a LOT of the details. 

--

'94 Jeep YJ 4.0L, 35" BFGs, Atlas 2 tcase, D44 front, 14b rear, detroit front, ARB rear, 4.56 gears, Warn winch, Onboard air, some rock rash. 

WrenchingSeasonBlog

October 2, 2011 at 11:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Marv
Limited Member
Posts: 142

I'd think you'd be fine with a D44, or you might look into a Ford 9".. there's a ton of aftermarket support for the 9", and you can build one as tough as a D60, IMHO. 

A Waggy front D44 shouldn't be too hard to source...  There's a ton of them out there in salvage yards, and even on Craigslist.

October 3, 2011 at 9:20 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Flexer
Member
Posts: 265

Have you thought about a Ford 8.8 disk brake version out of an explorer.  Those fit nicely and are pretty bulletproof as well.

--

'94 Jeep YJ 4.0L, 35" BFGs, Atlas 2 tcase, D44 front, 14b rear, detroit front, ARB rear, 4.56 gears, Warn winch, Onboard air, some rock rash. 

WrenchingSeasonBlog

October 3, 2011 at 11:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

arveetek
Member
Posts: 947

Thanks for all the suggestions!


I hadn't thought about the low clearance with the 14 bolt and smallish tires.  That's a good point.


Do you think a 8.8 would hold up to the torque of a diesel?



October 4, 2011 at 9:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

arveetek
Member
Posts: 947

Trailfrog at October 2, 2011 at 11:08 PM

I still have the stock 44 out of my JK minus drivers side axle shaft.  What ring and pinon are you thinking?



I'd probably run 4.10 - 4.56 with the diesel, 33" tires, and a 700R4.




October 4, 2011 at 9:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Flexer
Member
Posts: 265

Hmmm ... an auto.. yeah, I'd go with the 8.8.  Autos are soooo forgiving.  You can EASILY run 33" tires or 35" with an 8.8...especially with an auto.

 

 

I run 4.56 gears in mine with the stock motor and 35" BFGs... it gives similar to factory RPM on the highway in high range. 

I personally think (and not everyone need agree) tire size drives axles strength need.  It's the torque difference between the tires and the differential you're trying to overcome.  Tire size drives the differential gearing... hence my thought.  Yeah, you'll get some good lowend torque from the diesel... so it might make a difference.. then again it would also stress the front 44 at that point.

For 35"s I think an 8.8 might be the perfect axle... disk brakes from the factory, ebrake there, pretty stout ring gear.  They have a 4.56 ratio set too.

The D44 has an 8.5" ring gear, the 8.8 has... well... an 8.8" ring gear...so similar strength.  And that has been what I've seen on the trail.  Neither break with 33"s.

The 14 bolt has a 10.5" boat anchor ring gear that you have to boil to get it hot enough to expand enough to go over the carrier.  (or at least I did when installing mine).  After breaking 2 wagoneer AMC20s I didn't want to break again.  I haven't.

Anyone on here have an 8.8 to talk about?  The one I set up for a buddy is in CO so not very helpful here.  He's loving it.  He put a detroit in his.  It has it's quirks (as every detroit does) but it just works.  It took a little more work to get his suspension to clearance... but it would be even harder with a 14 bolt.  That 14B punkin' is a beast.  I get away with it because I'm SOA... lots of room.

--

'94 Jeep YJ 4.0L, 35" BFGs, Atlas 2 tcase, D44 front, 14b rear, detroit front, ARB rear, 4.56 gears, Warn winch, Onboard air, some rock rash. 

WrenchingSeasonBlog

October 4, 2011 at 11:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

arveetek
Member
Posts: 947

Stan Oller runs an 8.8 in his super YJ, but he's running 33's behind the 4 cylinder, so of course it'll survive.  He has one super nice rig, though.  It goes where no other 33" shod rig can go....


October 4, 2011 at 11:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SuperD
Limited Member
Posts: 186

8.8's are still c-clip axles, why replace a c-clip with another c-clip style, money better spent elswhere IMO.

you do realize you will be adding 500-800# to the drivetrain, gonna take some seriously stiff rate coils to support all that weight and be streetable, possibly coilovers if you want to wheel it.

 a 700r4 & transfer case will be much longer overall messing up your shaft angles and lengths, may have to stretch the wheelbase a bit or a large transfer case drop & a high pinion rear axle

October 5, 2011 at 10:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Flexer
Member
Posts: 265

SuperD at October 5, 2011 at 10:50 AM

8.8's are still c-clip axles, why replace a c-clip with another c-clip style, money better spent elswhere IMO.

you do realize you will be adding 500-800# to the drivetrain, gonna take some seriously stiff rate coils to support all that weight and be streetable, possibly coilovers if you want to wheel it.

 a 700r4 & transfer case will be much longer overall messing up your shaft angles and lengths, may have to stretch the wheelbase a bit or a large transfer case drop & a high pinion rear axle

True enough they are c-clips.

If you get the disk brake version they don't completely suffer the same fate as the Dana 35 which walks out... and they are beefier... and they are disk brakes out of the gate. 

Either way... I can't say much... I put the 14 bolt plow in my Jeep.   :D

--

'94 Jeep YJ 4.0L, 35" BFGs, Atlas 2 tcase, D44 front, 14b rear, detroit front, ARB rear, 4.56 gears, Warn winch, Onboard air, some rock rash. 

WrenchingSeasonBlog

October 5, 2011 at 8:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

arveetek
Member
Posts: 947

SuperD at October 5, 2011 at 10:50 AM

8.8's are still c-clip axles, why replace a c-clip with another c-clip style, money better spent elswhere IMO.

you do realize you will be adding 500-800# to the drivetrain, gonna take some seriously stiff rate coils to support all that weight and be streetable, possibly coilovers if you want to wheel it.

 a 700r4 & transfer case will be much longer overall messing up your shaft angles and lengths, may have to stretch the wheelbase a bit or a large transfer case drop & a high pinion rear axle

David,


What axles would you suggest for what I am proposing?  Any other suggestions?


Thanks!



October 6, 2011 at 7:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

collinsbronco
Limited Member
Posts: 311

I have been a fan of the 9 inch after owning a Early Bronco. Mine was 28 spline with 36 SX's and a Lockright locker. 31 Spline are %30 stronger and parts, gear options, and lockers are limitless.

--

 

 2000 XJ Sport, 4 1/2 lift,Dana 30, 8.25 rear, NP231,STANO front bumper, rear bumper in progress, TJ Moab wheels, ZJ V8 steering. In the process of front hoop, tires, fender trimming.

WANTED

**ZJ rear gas tank skid, KJ Liberty rear disc brakes**

 


 

October 6, 2011 at 9:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Allen
Limited Member
Posts: 168

I have an 8.8 in my Jeep.  I would probaly steer away from 700r4 as well because of the length of it.  Main thing about 8.8 is weld the axle tubes to the housing.  I have not really ran mine alot, but it seems stout and I am running 33" bias ply swampers.  I have 4.88s, but that would be way to low in a diesel i would think. With the torque a Diesel would produce I would think 4.11s would be plenty low IMO.  I read an article awhile back where a guy took a 4 banger diesel out of a Frito lay truck and ran the 5 speed stick and 241J stock trans case.  They put I think 3.73s or 4.10s and a 8.8 and reported 25+ MPH.  Granted people report all kinds off things.  I will look for the article and see if I can post it here.

.

--

91 YJ, AMC 360, 33"x13.50" Swamper LTBs, QuadraJunk Trans Case, SOA lift, 4.5" lift springs,  4.88 gears, Spartan locker up front, 8.8 with discs in the rear, Rock Solid Fab Rock Rails


-Allen C Wendling

October 6, 2011 at 10:08 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Allen
Limited Member
Posts: 168

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/trucks/0610dp_1993_jeep_wrangler_diesel/index.html

 

I think the diesel idea is awesome.  This artcle is not the one i was speaking of but they are running 3.08s getting 28mpg.  Sounds sweet.

--

91 YJ, AMC 360, 33"x13.50" Swamper LTBs, QuadraJunk Trans Case, SOA lift, 4.5" lift springs,  4.88 gears, Spartan locker up front, 8.8 with discs in the rear, Rock Solid Fab Rock Rails


-Allen C Wendling

October 6, 2011 at 10:14 PM Flag Quote & Reply

mud diver
Limited Member
Posts: 272
My jeep has been running 08 rubicon Dana 44 with a 400 horsepower hemi 4:10 gears and 35's now 33's and factory electric locker and haven't had any problem with it. And I have a very heavy right foot!
October 6, 2011 at 10:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

arveetek
Member
Posts: 947

Allen at October 6, 2011 at 10:14 PM

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/trucks/0610dp_1993_jeep_wrangler_diesel/index.html

 

I think the diesel idea is awesome.  This artcle is not the one i was speaking of but they are running 3.08s getting 28mpg.  Sounds sweet.


Yeah, I've seen a lot of 4BT Cummins conversions.  That's a really good route to go as well.


You'd think the 4 cylinder diesel would be a better option than a V8 diesel.  However, the 4BT Cummins is nearly as heavy as a 6.5L 8 cylinder!!


I love the 700R4 (had one in my '81 Chevy truck I converted to diesel) due to its low first gear and steep overdrive.  Best of both worlds.



October 7, 2011 at 9:28 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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